Interesting! I always thought that teachers are also taxpayers! When was it that they were allowed to stop paying taxes? And why is it that she is a WEAC zealot? Or are all teachers zealots? Why would we trust them to basically raise our children? As far as I know, she was laid off earlier this year, how can she be a union rep (and why are they bad? I have never been a union member and will not plan to become one. You seem to know a lot about unions, can you enlighten me a little?

Don, what is a "WEAC zealot?" Why wouldn't we need union members in our legislature? Knudson runs a business. John Murtha runs a business. Senators Ron Johnson and Herb Kohl run businesses. Governor Walker and Sheila Harsdorf are career politicians who have spent the majority of the adult life receiving a paycheck that comes from the public. From the government classes I took long ago, I remember that we'd like to get a mix of voices representing us.

This is a definition of zealot: "one who is zealous, one who is full of zeal for his own specific beliefs or objectives, usually in the negative sense of being too passionate."

Synonyms for zealot are activist, diehard, extremist, fanatic, fiend, maniac, militant, nut, radical. An antonym for zealot is moderate.

Aren't most politicians zealots? Can you name me any elected moderates in Madison?

Citizen Don Van:

Now since Shelly is unqualified to be an elected representative because she is a working person and a union member, does that mean that any business person is unqualified because they would be voting on issues and actions that would benefit them at the expense of working people? Well of course not, and in fact it is about time that we had a state senator that represents the special interest of the majority of the citizens in this district who are working people, parents of students in public schools, teachers, butchers, bakers and candlestickmakers. You aren't gunna get Wlaker-Hardsdorf any votes by using the boogieman of union "zealot". Typical phony conservative argument...as opposed to the REAL conservative who believes that all people should be represented.

As I always say: you cannot trust them union thugs! Who would want to live a life that this lech guy lines out! Isn't it better to be serves of the oligarchy?

Time will tell whether or not this is a mistake. I wonder how many independents will show up to vote. You can bet the Republicans will be littering your mailbox with nasty grams about the "outsiders", etc.

Teachers with connections to the unions seem to be a favored choice in western Wisconsin. In 2008, Chris Buckle of Hammand ran against John Murtha in the 29th Assembly race. Kerry Kittle of New Richmond ran against Murtha in 2006. Even though the Assembly job is considered a part-time job and Kittle and Buckle would have been able to arrange their schedule to keep their teaching positions (leave of absence, etc.), the Republicans nasty-grammed Kittle and Buckle as double-dippers.

Apparently, the fact that Murtha runs a full-time business is not considered double-dipping.

Getting the recall signatures was the easy part. Getting elected will be the hard, ugly part.

Teachers always have connection to unions, because all schools are unionized. That is not a bad thing, because that can provide some extra resources for a candidate. The Rep candidates don't need those resources, they have all they need from big money!
Why should teacher be a bad choice. Teachers used to be our ideals, every kid has at least one teacher she loves dearly. Why couldn't Shelly be this teacher for us? We, as a people have to restore the good image of teachers again. They are not the villains that leach on our pockets. They are dedicated persons that we trust to educate (and babysit) our children. They do their best to bring the future of this country up to speed. For centuries, this country was proud of their teachers, because they caused the beginnings of the achievements we reached. And all of a sudden they are a burden? Are we all getting Alzheimer's and forget how well teachers did for us?

It will be our job to help Shelly to counter the nasty attacks. and point things out (like you did in the above) if they come up. We have to be the mouth, hands and feet for Shelly!

I is just normal that some teachers are against the unions, some teachers are even Republicans. there is nothing as "the teachers", they are individuals like you and I.

If we as the voting public allow these dirty tacticts to influence us and our friend and neighbors, we don't deserve any better.

We are the ones that have to spread the "protecting tend" out for Shelly, we are the ones that have to protect her against the blody beats from the big money that wants to keep sheila as their serf!

Can you articulate your points a little better? Any calculations from neutral organizations show that Walker/Sheila will cost Wisconsin about 7.5 million Dollars MORE in taxes, not less. Thsi would mean that Sheila harsdorf will do the digging into the financial hole. Moore would fill that hole up again!

If you would listen to the news/read them, you would find that Wisconsin had no hole until Walker made all those tax gifts to the upper 1% of the income class. Doyle left him with a surplus, Walker dug into that and even more and thus created the mess!

Can you tell me, what you mean with less government? Who is government? The people that fill the potholes in the streets are government, the snow plow drivers are government! Do you want less of them? or less polciemen, firefighters, they are all government! Waht is less government?

Thanks to Lech for a sound,well articulated reply!! As for double-dipping,take a good,long look at the USDA web site for Trim-Bel Valley Farms for farm subsidies courtesy of Uncle Sam. Make note of the owners as well as the numbers.

Dirk A.

I am still waiting for your explanation an the above statement. What part of the government do you want to have removed/less of?

Let's look at "real" numbers! The school districts in St. Croix county will loose a whooping $11.6 million. That money needs to be made up if we don't want to loose education quality! because the Hudson district did not fully utilized the allowed mill rate levy, they can increase the levy to make this up . This means in real words "HIGHER TAXES" for us! The estimated income cut for every public worker in take home pay is $2,261. There are 3,946 workers, and you get $8.9 million in reduction of purchase power for local businesses. This means lower sales tax revenues, closed businesses, etc. We have to make up for this reduction in "HIGHER TAXES"

The cuts to towns and cities in the county will be $1.3 million, guess who has to make up for this in "HIGHER TAXES" ?I can go on like this for all the other counties in district 10, the figures are as bad as the ones for St. Croix county!

And I can give you similar figures for the state budget, they don't jive either.

I don't understand why the budget repair is to be carried by the middle and low income families (that includes you and me0, and why the very high income earners get tax presents in the hundreds of millions! I don't understand that we as the middle class are supposed to carry the tax burden of the state (by the way, public workers a tax payers like you and I), while big corporations pay no or very little tax only, while they receive more services from the state (big government) than you and I do!

Lech: I know you are rebutting with the "loss of purchasing power" talking point that I've heard. Consider that $11.6 million that will be lost in St. Croix County. If the state and school district were to make it so we didn't lose that $11.6 million, how would they do it?

My guess is that it would have to be made up through a combination of taxing schemes. If the state came up with the entire amount, it would have to raise it through taxes on the taxpayers of this state. Being a taxpayer, money would come out of my pocket and would be transfered to the pockets that makeup that $11.6 million. That would reduce my spending power.

Let's say the state taxed St. Croix County an additional $11.6 million to make up for that. It would mean that $11.6M would come out of one set of pockets and be transferred to another set of pockets.

Let's say the school district was allowed to levy to make up the $11.6M. Being a property owner, my taxes would go up and I would have less money to spend in the local economy. On the other hand, the school district employees would split the $11.6M into their pockets. This protery tax would be levied proportionally among trailer houses and mansion owners, because is it is levied against the value of the property.

I'm using high level numbers here, but I have issues with your resolution to the problem. Where do you see the $11.6M coming from?

I do see the money come from a more fair distribution of the tax burden. Instead of giving the upper 5% of income (remember those are not the corporations, those are the owners that pay the taxes after jobs hive been funded/created) any tax presents (like Walker did right at the beginning), and make the pay the proportional amount of their income, it would be a piece of cake to m get this money!

Do you have links to the fact, that Doyle was the problem? My income comes from Minesota (I worked in that state for the last 27 or so years). My job required it that i was pretty close to the political dealings in this state. I remeber that Polenti did cancel the reciprocity agreement to feed his standing with the Tea Party members there (he had already the ambitions to run for US president). Doyle was totaly surprised by this action and tried to negotiate with Polenti, who refuedde to meet with him. But the money was there, it was just not transfered yet to Minnesota. Walker dipped into this stack of cash and handed it over to his cronies!

Property taxes cannot be increased (butthe levy thing in Hudson can do this). But there is no part of the bill that forbids increases for service fees. It will be simliar to Polenti's 'no new taxes" slogan in Minnesota, that made service fees go sky high!

Yes, where did Shelly Moore go?

Happy Badger: I think you misinterpreted my comment. I said I was "amazed." I think it's a good thing. I'm glad that the community can have a discussion among itself and doesn't look to "the media" for the instructions.

You guys rock! Keep it up!

... just make sure to keep it civil.

Here's a riddle:
If a bunch of public union people got mad enough to collect enough signatures to recall a sitting state senator and they had to pick a candidate who represented their view point, who would they chose?

Perhaps the other choices where union members? My guess is, if they would have got Jesus to run against Harsdorf, Eagle would vote against Jesus. Does it really make a difference if the Democratic candidate is a union member? Sounds like the Sheila's two-note song will focus on the "outsiders" and "she's working for the union." Of course, Harsdorf will be signing this in the key with the one note sclae of me, me, me, me, me...

Why is a pro union person worse than a pro big money person?

A union person tries to better the lot of many, a big money person is only interested to make more money for a very few!

What is wrong with unions? I know a lot of wrongs with big money!

I always hear that Shelly is a union person. Just for the records, there is no union for teachers, it is the Wisconsin Education Association, not a union, but a professional association! The nobody calls the association of doctors a union, it is the Medical Association. I was for many years my employers delegate to the Health Industry Manufacturers Association (HIMA), nobody called me a union member. The purpose of an association is to speak for the rights and advancement of its members. that is what the education association does, nothing else! Why are we using for the WEA the union terminology? Only because its adversaries have told us over and over, and we fell for it?
And governmental experience? Had any of the senators elected last fall any experience? Did Walker have any experience?I don't believe so (Walker was a failure in Milwaukee county). By the way, voter ID will not come before 2012 (if it comes) and will not influence the recall election!
And by the way, I know many former Rep voters which are exited to vote for Shelly because they dislike the big money support program from Walker and his serf Harsdorf.

I am always amazed how many people vote against their very own interests because they fall for the lies of the republican election machine. I know for sure that nobody on this web side will be served well by Walker and Harsdorf and their devotion to the very big money! We have finally have the chance to vote for interests if we vote for Shelly!

If the WEA is negotiating contracts it is a union. True Professional Organizations do not negotiate contracts because true professionals have no need to hide behind unions or collective bargaining. A true professionals work speaks for itself.

If the WEA is negotiating contracts it is a union. A true professional organization does not negotiate contracts since true professionals stand on their own merit and are awarded as such. Thats the problem with the teachers unions. They want it both ways. They want to be considered as professionals yet seek out union representation like common unskilled labor.

I bet, we will not see her with us eye to eye. the outside of Wisconsin "big money" is rolling in already!

Her public appearances will be carefully programed to appear mostly with her supporters. Let's see if she will publicly debate. I bet not!!

She is someone who is intelligent, dedicated, willing to help and listen. She cares deeply about WI. She is a great choice!!

I think Sheila will be out campaigning. She always has before. Of course, being one of the senior members of the state senate -- achieved only by career politicians -- she also has business in Madison.

Shelly will be out campaign, despite the "big union" money rolling in.

I don't anticipate any public debates. This isn't about the issues. It's about power.

OK, let's spin that further. The American Medical Association set's up the base frame work for compensation with the health insurances, so does the American Hospital Association. The Health Care manufacturers Association deals with the Feds about basic Regulations for heir products and with the insurers on basic compensation for them. The Bar Association does similar things for their members. Shall we call all these groups unions? Teachers were actually pretty much the youngest association that came to these collective bargaining tables.
But OK, let's call their association a union. What's wrong with a union? why is all of a sudden this
union bashing" going on? I think it is because of special interests behind Walker and his serf Harsdorf to divide and conquer, and weaken education. Uneducated people are easy targets for manipulation, and manipulated people are very easy to push over into non critical corners. They even believe that what ever happens is for their own good, even if it is just the opposite. That is what is desired here, and it starts with this name calling of the teachers as bing union thugs! Divide and conquer, by having the groups fighting each other!
This fight is bad for either group, and can only be stopped by removing one party from the target zone. this can either be done by convincing the other group that unions are not bad, or moving the one group away from the negative union label that, in reality does not fit the teachers association

I agree with you on the leaning of St. Croix county. However, the voing population is currently very energized, and I know many former republican voters who don't like the Walker/Harsdorf agenda and voted to recall Harsdorf. If Shelly can "harvest" this anger, and stay, as you say, away from the union subject, she has a very good chance to win against Sheila. Sheila has not real talking points besides outside interests, and tax and spending. It is easy to proof both of these arguments as wrong (as they are in reality), because analysis from the Madison offices show that the Walker/Harsdorf agenda will increase taxes (they might be called fees, but they are still taxes), and the grass rots organization that supports the recall and supports Shelly is clearly Wisconsin grown!

The burden will be on the Moore campaign to frame the debate, in bold colors and loud, pointed language, on that overreach by Gov. Walker in his budget repair bill and Senator Harsdorf's refusal to even question it. She needs to be asked: Do you really favor giving legislative authority to the executive branch the way this bill does? You really believe it's a good idea to let one guy sell off public property on a no-bid basis without scrutiny by the legislature? Do you think it's okay to let the state's health secretary to rewrite medicaid qualifications without the people having a voice? Isn't it true, Senator, that union leaders and their Dem. allies had agreed to the real money issues Walker demanded BEFORE the Dem's left town? When you said, on the floor of the senate two years ago, that non-fiscal policy doesn't belong in a budget; when Walker campaigned on leaving non-fiscal items out of the budget, were the two of you lying then or lying now? These are the issues that justify the recall, in my view, since the teacher compensation questions were settled back in February. That is what Sheila Harsdorf needs to answer for in order to run a real race against her.

You bring up some very good points for the campaign Happy Badger. I hope that the Moore campaign has the same idea, if not, it is our duty to make sure that she includes those questions.

To Lech

Thanks you for helping select an excellant choice. You must work for the IRS... Being a teacher is a 100% bonus for everyone. The biggest problem right now is either the lack of information or the lack of understanding of the US Constitution. Those are the only legit excuses for Standing with Walker or Hardsdolf. I read an article in the St Paul paper quoting I beliueve one of the Fitzgerald brothers saying that they can count on all the Republicans to vote the same way again if they need to slide his bill through in a different way. He said it would be political suicide for any republican to vote differently.

That again just confirmed my belief that until all the Tea baggers have been removed, its not safe to vote for any republicans. Not sure what Elizabeths point was with her comparison. If she's quoting a man it's comparable to saying " I can either vote for a republican or a Woman" and I'm not either.. I've enjoyed reading your comments Lech..Well done keep up the good work!

You must talk of a different Jesus than than the one I know! You should read up on your knowledge of the New Testament!
My Jesus was for the poor an opressed and against the rich!

Eagle, I really take offense at that statement. And, somehow, I just can't imagine that Scott Walker and Paul Ryan will be leading the march into Heaven. Then again, maybe you're right after all. If that's the "righteous" people they let into God's Kingdom, I think I would run away.

The group that I belong to is setting up a meeting with Shelly's team. I am glad that the Harsdorf supporters feel that they have an easy play with Shelly!

That's the reason why one of my friends said lately: this country has not a two party system but a one and a half party system, because the Democrats are nothing else than Republicans light!

Well, let's think for a moment. Who was it to call all teachers to be union thugs? Was that neighborly?

If they can dish it out, they have to be ready to take it!

Please, Dietmar. I don't care who is doing the name calling. I just want you all to stop doing it.

Citizen Micheal Foley:

Please don't fall into the trap of phony objectivity and false equivalency. If you publish statements that characterize people as "union thugs" you aren't obligated to censor those who respond to that characterization and, as in this case, discuss how that term is used and expose those who use it. This is much like some phony news outlets who think they are "fair and balanced" when they print the truth and feel obligated to print a corresponding lie about the same subject. This word "thug" is going to be used indiscriminately to deamonize a large group of people, you can facilitate the delegitimizing of that word by allowing it to be exposed.

I'm not falling into any traps. I am enjoying the lively discussion here. I just want people to keep it clean and civil. Thanks for contributing your thoughts.

You can say thing that are provocative without being hostile. I'm not saying you have to agree with other users. I'm just asking that you disagree in a way that doesn't make this a hostile forum for anyone. If this forum turns toxic, it will be of use to no one.

Most people are doing a great job here. I've had to remove just a few comments, and I've only had to suspend a handful of accounts so far.

Here's a quick reminder of the terms that all users have agreed to: http://hudson-wi.patch.com/terms

Thank you, kind sir.

The "reply" button appears on comments that aren't responses to other comments. You'll also see that response comments are indented and have arrows pointing toward the comment they are responding to.

It's nothing like that, Thurston. I just walked in and took the temperature of the room in general. I like things to be heated, but I don't like them to be boiling. I step in when things are hot, but before they begin to boil.

I just like to remind folks that I want this forum to be a community center, not a cage match.

Citizen Thurston Howell III:

I'm WAAAAY to the left of "liberal" and I would encouage you to reread my post in defense of your exposition on why "unions " has become a dirty word and the previous exploration of the word "thugs" in its use to demonize groups of people and their politics. Keep the faith and pass the ammunition, Brother Thurston, but for God's sake don't shoot the friendlies.

Just for your information, I am not a member of the poor class, and if I look at the standard definition of middle income, I don't even belong to that class, but I have not lost my compassion for people that are less fortunate than me and my family!

Of course do wealthy people donate (and that with a big tax write off in their mind), and this way they can select which poor fellow begs often and loud enough to receive the morsels from their table (their average amount of donations is nothing different than morsels of the tables if compared with their income). don't you think it is degrading to people more unfortunate than you and I if they have to come and beg for some handouts, without knowing, whether they get them or not? Don't poor people have the right to the dignity that they can live a life without needing to go around and hope that some of us haves felt the urge (or had their accountant tell them) to donate some money?

And what is if they are hungry but don't belong the proper church, or live in an area to which nobody makes free will donations (like in the countryside or down town Milwaukee)? Don't these people have the right to fill their tummy? making sure that those things don't happen should be one of the most noble things a government can do? Make sure that it's people are well fed and have the chance to receive a good education should be the most important duties of any government! This is true patriotism!

And specifically here is where the present day Republicans stray away from the proper path! All what Walker and his serf Harsdorf recommend is exactly unpatriotic! They want to reduce the welfare of our poor, old and sick, they want to reduce the quality and possibility of education for our children, they want to reduce the services that you and I receive from the government, and their only goal is to pad the already bursting full coffers of a few super rich individuals!

But again, if you prefer to give selectively, but still can sleep well at night, knowing that some poor child had nothing to eat this day, because the school aid for lunch and breakfast was eliminated in favor of tax gifts for the super rich, go ahead and have it your way, but don't even dare to call you a patriot! I'd rather be a patriot and don't mind to pay a few more dollars in taxes and am sure that these children can eat at least two decent meals a day without having to go to a soup kitchen or food shelf and have to beg for a few bits to eat!

Thanks for your concern about my life after life. I just don't want to spend eternity with people who share Ayn Rand's idea of Utopia. I have no control over who would gain entry to Heaven if there is such a place. And I would never make a generalization that people of one political party are less Christian than others here on Earth. However, it seems to me that some people's actions speak louder than their pious words.

Come to think of it, I survived some pretty awful parochial school spiritual leaders that were very sure that they would get to Heaven. And even when I was a kid I questioned that.

Sorry if I've wandered way off topic here.

Citizen Eagle:

"...isn't the class warfare issue a bit old."

Indeed it is, Citizen, it's as old as money,politics and religion and those who have the money want to convince us who don't that that situation is the holy order of things and that those who want to make the situation more equitable or, dare I say more democratic, wage class warfare against God's law and the natural order of things. Of course, people who actually work for a living, have children in public schools, believe in democracy and the common good...these people understand that class warfare is what has been declared on them by politicians like Walker-Harsdorf on behalf of the money changes and the wealthy. People aren't buyin' what you're sellin anymore Citizen Eagle.

I certainly will continue to blame Republicans for the poor people in our country. All those cities that you listed were not able to do anything about their situation because of the declining industry in these areas. The individual majors could not do anything about it, they just could try to soften the blows a little. The industry would still be there would not have the fed government who was republican for almost 12 years supported the outsourcing of jobs to other countries. if the government would have done everything they could to keep the industry in the USA , those cities would not have gone down this far. Of course, I know that some industries disappeared totally, but the state and federal government could have steered other industry into these cities.
The main culprit of the industrial downturn of the USA is the republican party, you can turn it any way you want! A similar industrialized country, Germany, has an economy that is roaring wild, and they are the export champions of the world! They invested into the education of their people (they are the world champion of green technologies, all big wind generators are either made in Germany or Denmark) and the wellbeing of their workforce, everything the Republicans fought to their teeth!

Citizen Eagle:

"Salary and benefits for a teacher...Are they not compensated fairly?"

Not after Walker-Harsdorf gets done with 'em. Furthermore, cutting corporate taxes, capping property taxes ,cutting state support to local governments and reducing benefits to public workers leads to tax revenue deficits going forward so that in the next budget cycle there will be more mandated cuts in state expenditures. In addition, this is exactly how the cities you mentioned in your treatise on the natural order of poverty went bankrupt.

I don't know if TH III can, but I have looked into it. There seemed to be no absolute figures, but different sources state that teachers receive between 5.5% to 7% less total compensation than workers in private companies given a similar education level!

A beginning teacher in the Hudson school district (bachelor degree and licensed to teach in Wisconsin) receives an annual compensation of $22,674 and a similar amount in average fringe benefits. however, I think one should not look into the fringe benefits, because my employer never tells me how much that is (but way more than a teacher gets), and a teacher cannot pay his living expenses with the fringe benefits. I doubt that anybody can say that this amount for a college degreed person with a professional license is a good payment! But let's look into the highest payment of a Hudson teacher (the fringe benefits remain the same)
a teacher with a minimum of 15 years of teaching in the school district, who has a masters degree plus 48 graduate credits or a Phd, earns max $65,250. If my employer would over this amount of salary to a person with that level of education and experience, the applicant would roll on the floor because of laughter! if one furthermore considers that a teacher has to pay the education out of their own pocket and has to acquire it in his/her free time (mostly the summer vacations), the picture is even more out of balance!

Now we come to the Walker/Harsdorf plan. One of the reasons that teacher salaries are rather low is the fact that teachers dedicated a part of their annual salary increase (they did not get one the last two years) to go into their pension plan and to their health care plan to ensure good health care and an adequate pension. This plan is owned by the teachers and manged by the government. Well Walker/Harsdorf now decided to dip into the plan (on could call that steeling from it, because the state does not own it), to use it for tax gifts to the upper 1% of the population. To additionally make up for this, they require the teachers to put more o of their earned money into the plan, which would lead of a reduced take home pay between 7% and 10%. Which means , the low payment will be even more reduced. if one now considers that the schools are the largest employers in the county, this reduced purchasing power will have a definite influence on the economy around here.
But to ad insult to injury, the Walker/Harsdorf plan will take away collective bargaining and would leave the teachers to be subject to merit pay. I know, this works fine in the private sector. however, the private sector has well established performance measurement systems in place, these system are missing in the education sector! who shall assess the performance of a teacher, and how shall it be done?

Every class is different, has different kids with different home background, different IQ's and different abilities or disabilities. How can performance be measured in such a setting? Each subject requires different teaching methods, how can the performance of a math teacher be compared to the performance of a foreign language teacher? That of a music teacher with that of a physics teacher?

I feel that the Walker/Harsdorf plan starts with step three before step one. Until the required infrastructure for a union free school system has not been established a dismantlement of the current functioning structure (and that since about 40 years) will become a disaster for the education system of Wisconsin, and will cause many of the highly qualified teachers to leave either the profession or the state. The result will be a less qualified education for our children (Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa have the best outcome in education of any states in the USA). Do we really want this? Don't our children, they are our future, not deserve the best education we possibly can provide them?

PS: the salary information can be found here
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/33534649.html

The tax rates above are for married filing a joint return, not individual returns.

I know a teacher who rented an 18 wheeler to bring the dough home! :)

Lech: have I been mistaken about you? 18 wheeler? I would love to see a Moore/ Harsdorf debate on the Patch. Micheal will you please ask both of them if they are willing to answer a few questions causally with your i-phone. I thing I know the answer!!! Micheal put out the invite too both... The response from my persctive: Moore Yes .. Harsdorf..No.... I would love you to prove me wrong!! Any one else care to respond?

Average Salary Average Fringe
$47,285 $26,305

I understand that the salary can be taken over a 12 month period, but remember that Summer off leaves about 9 1/2 months of work. An average of 7 hours a working day. I think they are fairly compensated. But we can disagree and I am sure we will.

What you do forget that you average work day is only the contact time in front of the students. After this, the teachers have to grade the student work, have to prepare for new class sessions the next day, have to consult with students and parents, engage in student club activities, etc. I can't remember where I found it, but it was stated that the average work week of a teacher is 50 to 60 hours.

Now to the vacation, what do you think a teachers does at this time? Remember, teachers are required to do continuous education in their subject filed. the vacation is the time they increase their educational credit score. Remember, a teacher in highest salary bracket need to have either a PhD or 48 Grad School credits in their subject field. These credits are obtained during the summer vacations, which, taking this into consideration are not relay that long!
My employer gave me 5.5 weeks of fully paid vacation, plus a week of family emergency, and that is a for profit company that makes a lot of money (among the first 100 in the fortune 500). Nobody of their employees is required to do continuous education during these vacations, one does that during the paid work hours!

If your employer is not that generous, I recommend to look for a better one!

Base on 12 months, the $47,285/(52 weeks X 40 hours) = $22.73 per hour.

Based on 9 months, the $47,285/(36 weeks X 40 hours) = $32.87 per hour.

It's a salaried position that requires a college degree and state certification.

The rule of thumb for private industry is that the the benefits costs are around the salary doubled.

And this makes it in my book as being low paid for the position. If one assumes that a language teacher, for example, could be similar educated as a certified translator (advanced university degree, etc.) on has to reach this conclusion. A certified translator earns about $80 - $120 an hour (depending on the job). All the German teachers that I know in the Hudson High School have masters degrees plus many more graduate credits, but they do not even come close to a translators income. A translator is paid for every hour she/he works, a teacher is salaried and even though they work many hours more than the core hours, their salary will not change.

I have to apologize for me not getting it. What makes Shelly Moore a single issue candidate? Don't you think that a teacher (and Shelly is a national Board Certified Master Teacher) should be able to handle issues of a broad range of her possible voters? Why would the democratic base rather not vote or vote for a person from the republican party? I am absolutely new to all this (as I said earlier, I never did belong to a party). what does the democratic base expect or want? What is wrong with Shelly's resume? She is a teacher that achieved the highest level of certification possible for a teacher, she is very active in her professional association (so was I), and represents the Wisconsin chapter of it in DC (so did I for Minnesota). What is wrong with a person that is very much engaged in her profession? As I said, I just don't get it!

Concerning the selection, how is the base brought into it at other times? I got involved in a non partisan grass roots group starting with the recall of Sheila. There was an announcement on the web that a public introduction of candidates would be in Amery. A few of our group went there and we later invited a few candidates for our own interviews. We all agreed that Shelly would be the best, and made our opinion heard loud and clearly to the Democratic Party leadership.

What was wrong with this process? Why did the complainers not get involved?. But again, I don't know the "normal" process.

Elizabeth, I just hope that we can convince you and your friend to vote for Shelly Moore. We, as a very unpolitical grass roots group believe that Shelly Moore will be good for District 10, and hope that she can bring some of her teachers ethics to Madison and teach them a lesson on how not to deal with ones constituents

The pulling of the videos was very important. During my working life I received trainings on how to act in critical press interviews. There we were shown what a creative film editor/cutter can do with the most need movie clips. They can turn a kind birthday gratification into a very nasty propaganda clip! That is what Shelly tried to avoid, to get a hold of her videos and edit them into nasty pieces against her!

Dirk,

Of course I can't speak for Ms. Moore, but I'm curious as to the point of the questions.

On the first: I, personally, have a couple decades in the public sector under my belt, and about a decade in the private. Is there some qualitative difference between the paychecks I received in either one?

On the second and third questions: what's your point? What should we learn from a U.S. citizen exercising their First Amendment rights to free speech, to peaceably assemble and look to government for a redress of grievances? (There go those darned public employees again, acting like they're citizens or something. Don't ya' just hate that? I thought that was reserved lately for Tea Party supporters.)

On the fourth: I won't assume Ms. Moore's answer, but I hope that any teacher who violated their contract with their district were held fully accountable by their school board, under the terms of those same mutually agreed-upon contracts. I know that in Hudson, that's what did happen to the teachers found in violation of their agreements with the district. Ellsworth? I don't know. Likewise, I hope that the doctors who were found to be writing bogus medical excuses in Madison were disciplined by their own employers and/or professional "police."

Joan, one problem I have with this statement is where you can go online and see what the teachers in our area districts make. I wish everyones salaries were posted. I think it would give some people a good perspective of what each other makes. I believe if they can't make it on their wages, they are living beyond their means. They make in 1 salary what my husband and I make together. I work a full-time private job, my husband is self-employed who took a big salary cut in February. Not because of the Walker plan, but because of the economy. And we are proud we work full-time and support our family with no help. We have many friends and relatives that are teachers. I do not want to see any of them take a paycut as I found it is not fun to try and figure everything out without that money. We have many awesome teachers in our district and we appreciate them. That does not mean that I don't think they can't pay for part of their insurance and 401k. If we can do it on our income, they can on theirs. Teaching is not an easy job, just as ours is not. And our jobs are just as beneficial to you, as yours is to our kids! People have got to start giving each other credit on all these issues and stop tearing each other down.

You are correct! If we continue to treat our top teachers as bad as we currently do, we may lose quite a bit of brain power. Wisconsin has about double as many national Board approved Master Teachers as Minnesota (just as a refresher, these are the teachers that Bush referred to as very highly qualified teachers). Most of these Master Teachers are the mentors of "newcomers" in their specific teaching filed. Minnesota is looking with envy at Wisconsin's Master Teachers, and would be exited to hire them away from Wisconsin (I do not know about the situation in other states that border Wisconsin). I know of one of those teachers who has already received some hidden offers from Minnesota School Districts. Is that what we want. loose our top teachers to other states? By the way, Shelly Moore is also one of the Master Teachers!

So, tell me, what are doing the teachers in you family the job for? For the money? And what do they tell you what their job duties are? Are they telling you they are at home immediately after school is done, and they do not any school work at home? Ask them and let us know, so we will be able to correct our wrong picture about teachers!

And, my questions to you, Dirk...?

I new that there is a reason that Wikipedia is successful!
Well, now that you know what the word stands for, can you elaborate a little what this has to do with the statement Shelly Moore made in the video on the Borderline blog, and what socialism has to do with Shelly Moore as a Senator?

Pretty simple. We demand respect (she said) whether we earn it or not (i said). We collectively. Not I am my own person capable of coming to my own conclusions and capable of supporting myself by my own actions. No, its about us and you need to take care of us !

And what is wrong if she says at a convention of the association that the members of this association want to be respected?

Have you ever been at a convention of professionals? All the conventions I have been, the speakers always were speaking on association matters for ALL members of the association. that is very common speech!

You must have seen a different video than i did. I did not hear anything in the video about "you need to take care about us"!

But let me tell you, it gets tiresome to correct false interpretations of old videos for people that seem not to be able to differentiate the term "social" (as in social security, social studies, social hour, etc.) from the term socialistic!

If you want to continue, you might discuss with yourself!

Dirk, so than tell me what to you have against teachers, why are you biased against them?

We the people.........All right the Declaration of Independence! Thats the document that says that collective bargaining is a basic human right. Wait a minute....can't seem to find it there. Must be in the Constitution then. Wait, no.... its not there either. Gee where are these basic human rights I keep hearing about spelled out?

Happy, et all, Scott E. is not doubt one - which maybe be all - of the www.ontheborderline.net bloggers. "Scott E." would be used to get us to think he is the local teacher rep. If you check out how many comments are made on that blog, you will notice it's somewhere around zero. As with many on the hard left, they follow the zealots creed of "it's my way or the highway." Besides, what credible blog doesn't allow those it impugns to counter their attacks?

You will notice phrases like "typical liberal communists." What you need to know is that ANYONE who doesn't goose step to their world view is a "typical liberal communist." As one who's been kicked off that blog a few times years ago, believe me it know.

It's interesting to note that two of the main participants on the blog used to live on either of one of Hudson's favorite John Birch Society proponents. In the late 1960s and into the 70s, his wife would religiously attend all high schools assemblies to make sure that the local youth were not being indoctrinated with with "typical liberal communists" ideas. From people who know the two OTBL bloggers I know, they were basically non-political until they met their neighbor.

So don't waste too much time and energy worrying about what is said or posted on that blog or by trollster "Scott E." They can't help it if they drank from the reactionary Kool-aid filled toilet bowl of political hatred and individual self-worship at such impressionable ages in their lives.

Great job HB. You caught it! I figured that one would have lasted a while around here. Since you are familiar with the Constitution would you do me a favor and read it over and let me know where it says the federal government guarantees all its citizens a retirement (let alone through a giant ponzi scheme), health care, and subscription drugs. While you're at it let me know where it says the federal government should collect an income tax also. As for the 50 years of labor law pertaining to collective bargaining for state employees - I was always told its never to late to correct a mistake.

I'm sure they are there. You just have to know the names he posted under.

Careful, Lech. To be fair, the LRB analysis says the law would prevent the DNR from requiring "continuous disinfection" in municipal water supplies. Perhaps "occasional" disinfection is going to be allowed? I hope they're going to tell us which days it'll be safe to drink the water.

Note, too, that the exception is "unless continuous disinfection is required by the federal government." Must be a misprint. The Walker/Harsdorf regime is suddenly bowing to the feds? What gives? They don't want federal money encouraging high speed rail, don't want federal guidelines for health care for the poorest, but are rolling over on the water.

I smell lip service to their right-wing base. "We got the DNR off the back of local governments again." (unless the feds care more about public safety than we do).

Well, I made my living for a while as an Infection Control and Prevention Specialist in the research lab of one of the big companies around the Twin Cities, and I can tell you from that experience that a "little control" once in a while will not help. With infectious diseases (and many of them are water borne), one has to go it full time!

I don/t want to give a microbiological lessen here, but i am glad that I have my own well.

According to The Star Observer this bill will require 66 communities in the whole state who currently do not continuously chlorinate their water to start doing so. Anyone with the equipment already in place would continue to do so I'm sure. If these 66 communities needed to do so I would think their customers would demand it without Big Brother telling them to. Private wells are not chlorinated unless the owners are manually adding chlorine to their well, not an easy task. OMG, how will we all survive!!

Mike, apparently there is some pent up aggression in the community of said blog. I certainly appreciate that you allow for give and take on this forum. I noticed above a number of deleted comment notices.

I saddens me to know that I live in a community that lacks the civility to have adult discussions about important community issues. I also saddens me to know that do this attacking don't have the spine to present their points of view using their real name.

But, as my father use to say, "Shut up and deal the cards!"

How does the old saying go?... "When you jump in the the pigpen to fight a pig, you both get dirty—and the pig actually enjoys it."

If you want to respond to that blog, do so on that blog. My advice to you would be to ignore it all together. It's not worth a response. In either case, please don't link to it from here. It's not appropriate to associate Patch with a blog that is involved in widespread defamation and libel of among other unsavory acts. Those political views are welcome on Patch, but those tactics are not.
Also, if you really would be delighted if that site ceased to exist, you'd stop sending them web traffic by visiting and posting links to it. You're doing their publicity work for them.

"Also, if you really would be delighted if that site ceased to exist, you'd stop sending them web traffic by visiting and posting links to it. You're doing their publicity work for them." Excellent point Mike. Now if you can only ferret out those who post there and here.

Thanks for taking the high ground. :-) It's much appreciated.

I am so new to this blogging deal thast I did not even know there was a liberal blog. Did I miss out on something? And now that you removed the link I will die uninformed?

Thank you, Michael, for your skilled moderation of this forum. And thank you everyone who can respectfully participate in critical evaluation of our current issues. The decorous commentary on this site is the reason I return.

Go ahead and make us laugh!